Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon Exscom » 21. Apr 2019, 19:22

Good afternoon. He wanted to put the pump as Эво2.
pump found. Decided to also attach the pump to the adapter.
and even made a draft.
it's not a working system.
since there is no accuracy.
that would achieve accuracy.
it is necessary to install the centering bushings on the root covers.
as well as the sleeve between the adapter plate and the root caps.
only in this case there will be accuracy!
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon dbr » 22. Apr 2019, 17:45

Is there any technical reason why you are running two different injector types?
dbr
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon jeandersson » 23. Apr 2019, 15:50

dbr hat geschrieben:Is there any technical reason why you are running two different injector types?


Hi dbr :winken:

The reason is that I want the car to be drivable also at lower load. The bigger injectors are not good at handling short pulses as would be needed when running for example at idle. Therefore we are using a setup that is "staging" the injectors and only activating the bigger injectors at medium/high load. When running on low load it's only the smaller injectors that are in use. Does my explanation make sense? Otherwise I will try again :super
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon jeandersson » 23. Apr 2019, 15:53

Exscom hat geschrieben:Good afternoon. He wanted to put the pump as Эво2.
pump found. Decided to also attach the pump to the adapter.
and even made a draft.
it's not a working system.
since there is no accuracy.
that would achieve accuracy.
it is necessary to install the centering bushings on the root covers.
as well as the sleeve between the adapter plate and the root caps.
only in this case there will be accuracy!


Hi Exscom,

I don't really understand your post. Is there a question or a recommendation?
jeandersson
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon Exscom » 23. Apr 2019, 21:13

jeandersson hat geschrieben:
Exscom hat geschrieben:Good afternoon. He wanted to put the pump as Эво2.
pump found. Decided to also attach the pump to the adapter.
and even made a draft.
it's not a working system.
since there is no accuracy.
that would achieve accuracy.
it is necessary to install the centering bushings on the root covers.
as well as the sleeve between the adapter plate and the root caps.
only in this case there will be accuracy!


Hi Exscom,

I don't really understand your post. Is there a question or a recommendation?



I first did as You, removed the set several times, the position of the oil pump changed. So whatever it was exactly, decided to make bushings for the alignment position. You did the same? Or did You not notice the change in geometry?
Exscom
 
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon jeandersson » 24. Apr 2019, 14:16

Exscom hat geschrieben:
jeandersson hat geschrieben:
Exscom hat geschrieben:Good afternoon. He wanted to put the pump as Эво2.
pump found. Decided to also attach the pump to the adapter.
and even made a draft.
it's not a working system.
since there is no accuracy.
that would achieve accuracy.
it is necessary to install the centering bushings on the root covers.
as well as the sleeve between the adapter plate and the root caps.
only in this case there will be accuracy!


Hi Exscom,

I don't really understand your post. Is there a question or a recommendation?



I first did as You, removed the set several times, the position of the oil pump changed. So whatever it was exactly, decided to make bushings for the alignment position. You did the same? Or did You not notice the change in geometry?


No, I didn't notice any change in the geometry. But I have locating pins between the plate and the oil pump. Could that be the difference?
jeandersson
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon Nagilum » 24. Apr 2019, 17:32

As my "Hardyscheibe" kinda died on monday:
photo5330142908298406755.jpg

Did you find a proper replacement or another way drop that thing?
I mean... I need to make more notes on the parts I'm burning, but I guess this one lasted 5 to maybe 10.000 km. Rather 5, I guess.
These dirtbags don't handle power pretty well - it almost killed my driveshaft and screws/nuts need to replaced, too.

Regards
- Christof
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon jeandersson » 26. Apr 2019, 08:08

Nagilum hat geschrieben:As my "Hardyscheibe" kinda died on monday:
photo5330142908298406755.jpg

Did you find a proper replacement or another way drop that thing?
I mean... I need to make more notes on the parts I'm burning, but I guess this one lasted 5 to maybe 10.000 km. Rather 5, I guess.
These dirtbags don't handle power pretty well - it almost killed my driveshaft and screws/nuts need to replaced, too.

Regards
- Christof


Good morning Christof,

I have change to a larger "Hardyscheibe". With some reservation for my short memory. I believe that I'm running a "Hardyschebie" with 100mm cc between the bolts today. I think that we also tested 110mm cc, but that was to big and touching the body work of the car. Especially under high load. I have (obviously) changed the propeller in the differential and the driveshaft/propeller shaft is also rebuilt to fit the larger diameter of "Hardyscheibe". If I remember correct I have taken the propeller shaft from 2pcs of W124 and shorten them in order to get the support bearing in correct position with least amount of welding to the propeller shaft. Before changing propeller shaft I had problems with breaking the original propeller shaft a couple of times. The propeller shaft broke when I was using R-tires and the rear wheels started to jump. Seems like the MT drag racing tires are nicer to the propeller shaft even though they are able to get much higher power to the ground.

Off topic,
In the early stage of the project I had problem with the "Hardyscheibe" and when looking closer the alignment was not correct from differential towards the support bearing. After further inspection we found that the rear sub frame was deformed and therefore the front of the differential was higher then in the original geometry. Changed to another rear sub frame that was reinforced with stainless steel plates before installation, and problem disappeared.

Good luck with your project :super
jeandersson
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon Nagilum » 29. Apr 2019, 23:47

Due to lack of Access to (someone with) CNC machinery, your work isn't doable for me - and paying a company for that... tried that for pulleys and the only one who responded, requested absurd money.
I'll note the milage and keep an eye on it. Maybe also checking the alignment (and need new screws, the current ones are... eh). I'm not driving racing tires, nor does my engine have the same power - so the shaft is hopefully fine.
I got a link to an aluminium one, but I fear that it's too tough and may break other components (and the drivetrain doesn't have anything cheaper then a Hardyscheibe for 50 bucks).

Thanks, you too - I'm ready every post. Also your posts about the differential is very interesting. I've already broken two, but the current one is still okay - for now.
"Verbreitet ist die Bezeichnung Freund, doch selten ist die Treue."
- Phaedrus, Fabeln
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon nightXmare » 9. Mai 2019, 01:25

Did your differential fit under the chassis? I'm asking because I had to cut the Body after mounting the 210mm asd-diff in stock position :Daumenhoch: .

A friend of mine is running a 110mm Flexdisk/Hardyscheibe. He had to hammer the area above a little bit but it works fine now.
Thats the way I'll gonna do it too, in combination with 75mm 320 cdi propellershafts.

You are using OF Gear? Is it working without issues? I heard some bad reviews from a few really intelligent people. Because that i changed the path to manual tranny (gs6 53dz).

Thank you for showing your build and sharing information.

best regards from saxony
Max

@ nagilum: A friend of mine has contact to a company. They shortened his shaft incl balancing for round about 150€. If you are interested in that say it and ill ask for the company name(forgot that overthe months)
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon jeandersson » 10. Mai 2019, 09:44

nightXmare hat geschrieben:Did your differential fit under the chassis? I'm asking because I had to cut the Body after mounting the 210mm asd-diff in stock position :Daumenhoch: .

A friend of mine is running a 110mm Flexdisk/Hardyscheibe. He had to hammer the area above a little bit but it works fine now.
Thats the way I'll gonna do it too, in combination with 75mm 320 cdi propellershafts.

You are using OF Gear? Is it working without issues? I heard some bad reviews from a few really intelligent people. Because that i changed the path to manual tranny (gs6 53dz).

Thank you for showing your build and sharing information.

best regards from saxony
Max

@ nagilum: A friend of mine has contact to a company. They shortened his shaft incl balancing for round about 150€. If you are interested in that say it and ill ask for the company name(forgot that overthe months)


Hi Max :winken:

The differential fitted without hammering the chassis. But it's extremely tight, I actually tried with a piece of paper to see that there is clearance. At least when the car is not moving.

I have only tested the OF gear for a short period of time. Installed it last autumn and just had a few runs before the old differential was broken and winter came. So far I have notice problems when using the internal speed sensor in the gear box. When the car is spinning the rear wheels and the gear box shifts, the controller gets lost and enter safe mode. Same situation with external speed sensor installed on the rear wheels. So now I'm trying with external speed sensor installed on the front wheels, so far that have worked out fine. Also gives a good feeling since the controller will not continue to shift up until the front wheel catches up with the spinning rear wheel.

Besides that I so far have only good things to say about the controller. It's very appreciated that the controller are reading both TPS and boost pressure. It's nice to have the car running and shifting smoothly under low load/cruising. While on high load the shifts are crisp. The controller are also adjusting the shifting RPM based on the same values.

What concerns/faults did your friends experience? As said I'm a novice with this transmission and controller, so all information is of interest :lesen:

Take care and thanks for the interest! Really appreciate all comments, questions and posts. The thread is so much more interesting when people are active :)
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon nightXmare » 10. Mai 2019, 10:48

Hello,

They had the same Problems as you plus the following ones :

-they were not able to control how hard it will shift the gears while cruising ...depending on oil temperatures etc it makes big difference in how hard the box will shift but it onyl hammers the gear in or it slips (and they all tried again and again)
-the box misshifted some times at full load ...shifting for example to 2. Instead of 4. Gear ...I don't need to explain what could happen
-Ole is not interested in showing any support, he just said "nah, that is not possible"

I don't want to pay 7-800euro for a half ass product.
While doing a manual conversion, the risk is on my own shoulders. I'm not that gifted in electronics and stuff.

Ok than clearence to the body is like in my build. The Differential will move upa bit in my Subframe, because I used Rubber bushings (w124 style).
And I don't want to notice a knocking sound while accelerating after I mounted the whole car :D
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon jeandersson » 31. Mai 2019, 13:58

nightXmare hat geschrieben:Hello,

They had the same Problems as you plus the following ones :

-they were not able to control how hard it will shift the gears while cruising ...depending on oil temperatures etc it makes big difference in how hard the box will shift but it onyl hammers the gear in or it slips (and they all tried again and again)
-the box misshifted some times at full load ...shifting for example to 2. Instead of 4. Gear ...I don't need to explain what could happen
-Ole is not interested in showing any support, he just said "nah, that is not possible"

I don't want to pay 7-800euro for a half ass product.
While doing a manual conversion, the risk is on my own shoulders. I'm not that gifted in electronics and stuff.

Ok than clearence to the body is like in my build. The Differential will move upa bit in my Subframe, because I used Rubber bushings (w124 style).
And I don't want to notice a knocking sound while accelerating after I mounted the whole car :D


Have tried the car and gearbox some more now. I agree that the temperature compensation is not 100% for our race track purpose with the standard values. But since it fully adjustable I believe that it should be possible to adjust. I will try and report back. Ole have always been help full when I had questions. Answering within 48 hours on emails with explanations.

In my opinion there is a bit to many variables that affect the gearbox (or I might just need some more time to understand them all). When used for the racetrack I would like to disable most of them and only use a basic setup with maximum clamping force and quickest possible shifts.
jeandersson
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon jeandersson » 31. Mai 2019, 14:27

Hi guys :winken:

I had to try the car some more now. And found a few week points (possible improvements).
First I tried some 201m drag racing. After 7 rounds I ended up with a broken gear box. The gear box used was a 722.634 from 270CDI so I was aware that it would be at risk. So I bought a 722.636 from E55 AMG and transferred the bell housing.
20190515_093803421_iOS.jpg

20190515_093801520_iOS.jpg

20190515_093754116_iOS.jpg


After the gear box change it was time for some 402m drag racing. Unfortunately not to many rounds that day. Was anyway able to find things that have to be improved.
*Gearbox is not aggressive enough when gearbox oil gets warm. Could notice from the logg-file that gear changes was slower and slower as temperature increase. Hopefully this can be sorted out by adjusting the temperature compensation in the gearbox controller.
*Converter is to tight. I'm not able to spool the turbo, when putting the gearbox in D, holding the brakes and full throttle I get a stall speed of 2500rpm. This is not enough to build any boost. During these last two tests I instead put the gearbox in N, used launch control 5500rpm and 1.5bar of boost and shift to D. This caused the rear wheels to spin uncontrolled for some time. Causing really bad 60-feet time.
*Intercooler is not functioning properly. On the 402m run I could see the manifold temperature increase drastically. After about 1/3 of the run intake temperature is 60 degrees. After about 2/3 of the run intake temperature is about 70 degrees. When exceeding 70 degrees about 7-8 degrees of injection timing have already been removed by the ECU (safety function). So this is really something that has to be sorted out in order to get down the track quicker.

Building a new inter cooler is the biggest job of the three point. New tube and fin core is already ordered, hopefully I can find the time to build it within a couple of weeks.
Converter is sent for readjustment (this is still a mystery to me so I don't try it myself).
Adjustment of the gearbox I suppose/hope we can do on the highway.

Take care until next time! :danke
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon jeandersson » 9. Jul 2019, 15:32

Hi Guys :winken:

Things are moving slowly. Most of my time is consumed on other things then the car. But when I do work on the car it's the work with new Intercooler that is priority.

I'm not really a professional when it comes to welding/construction, therefore I was hesitating about posting the pictures :oops: But decided to go ahead anyway. Worst that can happen is that someone has good advice and I will learn from it :super

IMG_0929.JPG

IMG_0932.JPG

IMG_0970.JPG

IMG_1010.JPG

IMG_1023.JPG
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon Nagilum » 11. Jul 2019, 04:46

I've seen WAY woerse, even on simple, plain, steel!
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Re: Mercedes 190e 2.3-16V Turbo

Beitragvon jeandersson » 11. Jul 2019, 15:16

Nagilum hat geschrieben:I've seen WAY woerse, even on simple, plain, steel!

Thank you, it's comforting to know that I didn't make a (total) fool of myself :Daumenhoch:
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