Umbau auf Megasquirt EFI und noch viel mehr

[Chris Martens]

[Maki]

[Chris Martens]

Maki,

danke für die Erklärung.

Dann ist also die VEMS aus verschiedenen Gründen die bessere Wahl, wie es scheint. Wenn die Seite / das Forum der VEMSer doch nur in Englisch wäre...

Aber, wir haben ja notfalls Jesper und Thorsten arbeitet an einem Komplettsystem für die Nicht-Schrauber in Germanien.

Ich warte inzwischen auf mein erstes Teil des Umbaues, die Kraftstoffleiste aus Trollhättan:



bis denn,
Christian

[Maki]

Jaein - ich würde z.B. sagen , daß Shax Entscheidung die richtige Wahl war für das was er vor hat !
Da er das Paket von Silvercosworth bekommt hat er auch eine Basemap dazu bekommen die es ihm ermöglicht den Wagen zu starten und auch zu fahren ( ist bei mir momentan ja auch nix anderes - ich habe auch nur die Basemap drauf)

Was ICH noch machen würde - wäre ich anstelle von shax - ich würde mir auf jedenfall eine Abgastemperatur Anzeige zulegen.
So hat man z.B. bei Vollgasfahrt 'ne Möglichkeit zu schauen ob alles im Rahmen liegt und wo überhaupt die Temp. liegen - dann kann man ja auch schauen wie sich die Abgastemperatur verändert je nachdem wie fett oder mager man fährt !

Bye
Maki

p.s. Chris es gibt noch das uk Vems Forum Klein aber fein und Rob ist DER Ansprechpartner dort !

[shaxm32]

[Maki]

[Nagilum]

[shaxm32]

[shaxm32]

[Henger]

[Nagilum]

[shaxm32]

Einfach erklärt jede Zündkerze hat ihre eigene Zündspule, direkt auf der Zündkerze sitzend. Sozusagen ein Zündkerzenstecker mit Zündspule

oder siehe hier dann muss ich es nicht ewig erklären:

[Henger]

Vielleicht noch einfacher erklärt, die Einzelfunkenspule /Single-spark Coil ist Standart im derzeitigen Motorenbau. Vor ein paar Jahren noch der oberen Mittelklasse vorbehalten, ist sie nun auch bis in den Kleinwagenbereich verbaut.
Effektiv und Leistungsfördernd, trägt zu besseren Emissions und Verbrauchwerten bei.

Gruß Fränk

[Chris Martens]

moin Fränk,

ich halte die Einzelzündspulen bei unseren Motoren für überflüssig.

Sie mögen bessere Abgaswerte produzieren, aber leistungsfördernd und verbrauchssenkend? Glaub ich einfach mal nicht.

Aber: haste dafür (leistungsfördernd, verbrauchssenkend) mal nen link mit Nachweisen oder Erklärungen?
Ich will ja nicht blöde sterben...

bis denn,
Christian

[Henger]

[Nagilum]

Ist es möglich die Dinger auch in unseren Wagen zu verbauen und wenn ja, was kostet der Spass?
Für den Fall, dass man, wie Roman, auf eine EFI umsattelt...

Mehr Doku wäre wirklich interessant, aber vielleicht such ich selbst mal, wenn ich etwas Zeit übrig hab.

Gruß
- Nagi

[Thorsten Stadler]

Jens adaptiert gerade Single Coils in den 16V. Das ist nicht ganz so einfacher, weil die Dinger ja nicht zu groß sein sollen. Ich bin auf das Ergebnis auch gespannt. Im Rennwagen fahren wir zur Zeit noch 4 fach Zündspule mit Kabeln zu den Kerzen.

[Chris Martens]

[Racing]

I´d have to go on record here and say that there´s a LOT more to this than meets the eye and it´s anything but simple.

Getting a car to deliver on full throttle is one thing...getting it to be well behaved is another-which in turn takes a LOT more work and understanding.
Hardparts of a stand alone is the easy bit.

VEMS vs MS.
Mainly the processor of the VEMS is way more capable than any current MSs.
Yes,they both share the same software foundation,but that´s it..and the two softwares DO NOT interchange.
Ie,DO NOT try to use the VEMS software on the MS as it will only ruin the unit.

When it comes to a stand alone..there´s a few points that need to be met that most people don´t get into in my book.

1/Processor speed/repeatability
System HAS to be set in such a way that it repeats its behaviour time after time after time...otherwise there´s no reason in even trying to MAP the system.
Hard part here is the intake air temp,because as it varies with driving conditions and outer temps as well as underhood temps..so will gas mass entering the engine..
Now..this is a little of damned if you do and damned if you don´t,cause no matter where in the intake tract you end up putting the IAT sensor..you WILL lose at some end.
What the VEMS group did was in my opinion a masterpiece,cause they basicaly let the IAT sensor end up wherever...and let the wideband lambda sensor take control of the varying conditions that WILL be an effect as the engine is run.
Further,you can control the working parameter of the lambda to YOUR liking/needs.
Now,of course this sets GREAT demands on WB calibration...none the less it´s THE most thought through setup i can imagine.
Be adviced tho..it is more or less "standard" that the WB sensor needs to be recalibrated from time to time..

Further.
The MS was an offspin by Bowling and Grippo from the DIY-EFI board mailing list originating back in the 90s at one time.
B&G decided to keep the setup what´s known as open source,meaning anyone could contribute.
At the time..that was a masterpiece as development of the MS took on a downright redicolous speed.
However..i seriously doubt that B&G ever anticipated that the MS would strike home as it did,and it still being open source THESE days brings that there´s WAY WAY WAY to many chef´s involved leaving us with a setup where there´s a will and saying for everything in sight.

Now..the VEMS(which started as the MS AVR at one time) was a group of the MS crowd that got tired with all the "amatuer" involvment.
Hence..VEMS is still to a degree open source,but..in the form of a "think trust".
This means..that to this day you´re still welcome to contribute to the VEMS..however you have to write the "think trust" who will decide if you´re into the loop enough to be of any value.
A smart move if you ask me as i brings that all the "moronic" ideas are left behind and only people that really knows what it´s all about get in on the work.

I´ve given the VEMS crowd critisism for that they release new software versions to often still.
Point being that the customers of VEMS systems that are NOT interested in becoming "experts" of SAs only get confused by the array of software versions available.

As a tuner...i´ve got an interest in the software improvments that brings PRACTICAL advantages...and the truth of the matter is that most don´t.

..and at the other end...there´s guys like me...having to answer phone calls from customers that want the "latest" software installed as it HAS to be better as it´s got a higher software number.

Just take the later software versions for the Audi 5 cylinders.
I´ve had customers call me up to tell me they NEED the latest 1.01X version...where i have to spend another 30 minutes explaining to them that the version they ask for can not even be installed on their motor and get it running!!!!

So..i´ve asked the VEMS group to keep that stuff under wraps as most don´t have a need for the latest versions.

To go on...minor development in for instance Launch control resolution will render a new software...and what good is that version for someone running a naturaly aspirated engine OR a turbo engine that isn´t to be used for dragracing?

I think you see my point...

Further..i sincerly WISH that all those attempting this themselves would do us all a favour and install a Hall effects trigger first thing they do.
Yes...VRs can be used,but it is such a MASSIVE job to get right that i´d say that 99% of those installing a SA have no idea what it takes.
Idea for most after all is a running ENGINE...not to spend 100man hrs running around like one legged chicken trying to find out why they have HC values through the roof at 3000rpms and 70kpa pressure.

VRs are EXTREMELY hard to get 100% right.
Take my word for it,and to even THINK about opening ones mouth on the subject you NEED a hardcore exhaust analyzer.

[Racing]

Btw.
On the topic of distributor(Dist) vs wastefire(WF) vs coil on plug(COP).

This is another topic that´s gotten completely out of hand.
I´m in 100% agreement with Chris on this,and the advantages of any alterations to the original setup needs to be weighed against the outlay and work involved IMO.
Current internet idea is that a distributor is a dinosaur setup that´s really doesn´t work worth a crap...
Wrong.
For extractin POWER...which it is all about to most..if that were the case..take a look at the turboF1 engine of the 80s...those put out inxs of 1000hp from 1.5 liters...and you can be DEAD sure that they carry a distributor.
What i´m saying is...if it ain´t broke,why fix it?

Yes..there´s MINOR advantages to be had from a TECHNICAL standpoint from WF or COP,but i´m also the first to voice up that for MOST there´s absolutely NO difference in behaviour or performance WHAT SO EVER with keeping the distributor setup already on the motor.

That...coupled with that the spares(distributor cap and rotor) can be had drit cheap for the 102 engine...i for one say think long and hard before altering the existing system.
Rest assured that mercedes put some SERIOUS development work into it before releasing it for market use.

So..before thinking about adding a LOT of complexity to the already existing system...ask why you should.

My new motor will most likely be run on the Bosch Motorsport WF coils,but this as due coarse for developing the setup for the VEMS group..again...we´re going to be anal about the approach to get it right,and this take a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle more than just adding the setup as hard parts.


From there...to the morons that believe that sequential control is essential.
From a performance perspective..please please please tell me how big injectors you need to be able to take advantage of sequential control at WOT.
PLEASE do.

What i´m saying is that this is ANOTHER internet fallacy,cause to this day...most OEM systems even ARE NOT sequential in operation as performance demands go up.
To the point where it´s all bullshit if you ask me.

...and still...you can´t even market a system that´s not sequential in operation these days.
Pure folly.