can i build an entire 16V car on a 2.0L car body chassis ?

[Cloudini]

dear 16V,

i came to the sadly discover that my car has got replaced chassis numbers, my car was a 2.5-16V chassis original with the special Red Colour that was only sold as 2.5-16V model, the replaced or Current chassis number is registerd to an W201 2.0L on license plates and car papers, ive always thought the car Was an 2.0l and they just replaced the engine, and interior, all of this im started to discover and speculating since i removed the car engine for rebuild,

i always had in mind that i wanted to Reregister the car and they could update the 2.0L on the license papers or registration papers to 2.5-16V, this is no problem, usually, But it Is a problem when they discover the chassis numbers are replaced, this is illigal, (omkatten in dutch language) than they will take my car away and ill never see it again, a huge ticket and deep trouble !, i would have NEVER bought this car if it wassent a perfect Evo II replica, well and the 2.5-16V engine drives sweet !,

my question now is !, can i rebuild an entire 2.5-16V car on a 2.0L or 1.8L chassis body ? so my rear subframe coming from the 2.5-16V and build on the 2.0L body chassis same as All the electronics and everything from my old car to an replacement 190E, one that is fair, so that i can later on reregister the car without any trouble, will this all fit, is this all universal fitment ? i want to take litteraly Everything out of my old car and build it on the new car wich is an 87 2.0L car,

there are multiple benefits to this, since the new car is an 87 i will get reduced tax because it is an oldtimer, the next one is my EvoII replica has always been the Wrong collour, i can now build everything on a car that is 199 black, and just repaint the evoII bodywork, last one is i can rebuild the entire car with new material, new subframe bushings and powdercoat the subframe and stuff like that,

so to come back to my question, can i replace my stuff from a 2.5-16 car to an 2.0l car . is this all universal fitment ?

tnx
Wesley

[shaq]

It is sad what happened to you but now calm down you can still save your project. It is not all bad as it looks.

Yes definitely you can build it on 190e or even 190d, and you should be aware that all the 16v parts are more worth than 16v chassis alone. Also now days good engine is maybe more worth than good bare chassis.

two chasis are nearly the same also around rear subframe, there are some differences in fenders but if you are going anyway to chop them for making a evo replica it is the same to you than.

once in our Forum was offered for free to someone willing to come and pick it up with a trailer nearly perfect 2.5 16 bare chasis in almadine red of course with papers. Other time it was offered for 1500 the same thing but not bare chassis but complete car 2.5-16 in silver without engine and transmission.

But we think it is very bad decision to chop original 16v for Evo projects it is better to use normal 190e for that. So its up to you what you intend to do with your project build genuine 16v car or build an evo replica. Also good 16v will soon be more worth than (nearly) any replica but however I myself plan to build one replica with original parts and I will use an 190e as basis because if I find a good 16v it is pity to chop it, if I find one with much rust that is cheap in start it is too much work anyway and not worth the working hours so at the end of the story 190e will it be

Regards,
Nikola.

[Cloudini]

thanks for the reply

almadine red was exactly the original colour of my car from what i believed is that this colour was only sold together with 2.5-16Vs
when i check the information plate on the front bar (where the radiator is) it says colour 172, wich is not the original paint, the colour is not antraciet grey, but red.
so they replaced that to, together with the other information and chassis number from an 2.0l car,,

but good to know that i can build my entire 2.5-16V car on an other fair 2.0l chassis, your totally right, ruining an 16V body for an evo is no go.
the 16V's are specials to and not worth to ruin or chop bodies for an fake EVO II,

what i want to know is, is ALL cars originally has the Same paint outside the car on the inside of the engine bay aswell ? like polished and glossy ? or is the enginebay non polished,
i went to check an 2.0L 190E car today, it had 199 black on the exterior but inside the enginebay it was just black,

once again thanks
regards
Wesley

[shaq]

But also how can you be so sure that car No was played with? Are you an expert on forged numbers?

Also for criminal police the only relevant chassis numbers are those next to battery. They should start with wdb201035 for a 2.5-16 or wdb201024 for normal 190e 2.0 or be something else for another w201 model.

Also the metal part containing them must not be replaced (at least not without special permission from police and also papers from Mercedes that a new one must have been installed because of e.g. rust, major accident etc.) that includes welding or numbers must not be played with forging, erasing etc but it takes and expert eye and equipment (Roentgen, acid, chemicals...) to be able to say for sure what it is of course police or some other institutions can do that, man at home hardly...

Also possibility is that it is repainted red wdb201035 to blue/black (nothing illegal) or that it was re-registered as it has 2.0 engine to pay less tax. Also one could put 2.0 engine for inspection and change of a tax class in papers and later illegaly put 2.5-16 back. It is also not legal but it is smaller offence than manip. chassis numbers and I think no police would of take a car away just for that I mean changed engine, one if caught on road will just pay fine and be put out of road before it is again sorted all out in papers. However if numbers beside battery were manipulated than you should never drive that chassis again as you can get into a deep troubles even jail.

color or even vin plate above radiator is not relevant as it can be changed or even left off. Some people when paint the car they paint not the engine bay, some do it means nothing. I think that engine bay as on many cars are only base painted with some hardener in it so they are not as bright as outside of the car but opaque. Thats how also new bmw5 that I drove was painted. As the car was brand new, one could of easily see that paint in engine bay didn't deteoriated or faded but painted like that. Some producers paint also engine bay with the same lacquer as outside of the car eg Audi,VW so it is not opaque but in full brightness.

The same red color available to 25-16 was available also to normal 190e. The only color that was not available to 190e/s, at least at the start of the production of 2.3-16 was smoke silver metallic but later they I think included it for 190e s since 1988

so check again why is your car 2.0 in papers, what numbers are in papers is chassis wdb201035 and engine 102990 in papers or is it wdb201024 and 102962 or 963 or similar engine No. of an 190e.

I wish you sort it out easily. Maybe it is all OK and you panic without reason

PS don't post here any numbers just the first part of it for discussion.

Regards,
Nikola.

[Cloudini]

Hey Shaq Its wdb201024

But what they did was, they replaced the entire schutbord ( dutch) the entire plate behind the engine,

It was welded over the complete edge, than put some hard paste over it, if im right, this plate behind the engine, is point welded on couple of places, on this same plate is ofcourse the chassis number,

Is there on the car a diffrent place where the VIN number is forged just like at the battery ? So i can check that ?


The thing is, im speculating, that they cut out the old plate behind the engine, welded a new one from a 2.0l
That was registerd in colour 172 (antraciet grey), this colour is nowhere to be found on the car, the red colour had a diffrent code !, they painted a grey colour ontop of the red, wich even does not look like 172, also the removed the paint from the number 5 on the engine headcover, it lookd like 2. -16 instead of 2.5-16v. To match the register papers that says the car with license XX-XX-XX and vin number 201024xxxxx has a 2.0l engine,
Instead of reregistering an fair car to edit the engine information that costs 50 euro's , they did all this sneaky stuff,
When i bought this car, or even the provious owner when he got it, never had any books or maintanace booklet so the car came with no history info, what i also think is, car gets a paint bath in factory, so that means that the entire chassis goes under paint ( under water niveau) Or Robot arms that paint the entire chassis first before anything enters the car, that means the plate behind the engine same plate to the battery with the vin number, should have the same colour as outside the car, but my vin plate is black, and the car is red, with grey ontop,



No worries Shaq im relaxed mate sorry if i gave the wrong impression!
Greetings
Wesley


EDIT : ive come to the discover that they cut out the plate metal arround the number and welded it in the other car,ill post some pictures of this later today, but it all makes sense now ! they did it VERY amaturistic its pretty hilarious to

[Cloudini]

ive come to the discover that they cut out the plate metal arround the number and welded it in the other car, it all makes sense now ! they did it VERY amaturistic its pretty hilarious to
the Vin nummer starts on the very right, you can see the grey colour that was the original 172 merc grey on the 2.0L where this vin nummer came from. together with this in the last picture shown information plate came from the 2.0l car
on the left is the original red from the 2.5-16V chassis, in the middle something like plamure paste or what ever, and on the right the grey haha
second picture is the back side of this panel. you can see the cut line,





grub wesley

[Cloudini]

I discoverd something else now!

Removed the rear seat, and there was a sticker with vin number and color and build date of the car!

License registration papers says build date 19-01-1988 2.0L car

And the rear seat says its vin number wdb201035xxxx with colour 512 wich is the almandine red that the car has and build date is 21-10-1988,

Im now 100% sure this car has an illigal VIN number at the battery plate,

Im going to rebuild the car on another 190e and destroy this chassis! Or atleast erase the registration and license at the registration center in holland RDW

[shaq]

That sticker felt off rear seat cushion (inside of it) as I think from factory on rear seat area there is no hidden VIN stickers waiting to be found except that one sticked to inside of every rear seat. There was a story that 190s have some hidden VIN plates from factory inside A pillars to help cripo identify the car, but it was never confirmed so I can not guarantee that.

I know at VWs where hidden vin are

What it means is that your seat originally came from that 16v car nothing more nothing less

Also front seat have the same stickers underneath if they are still there

Really it is obvious that previous owner used a 16v to build that car if you dont find that red color anywhere in the car but the grey that means everything is ok.

About the numbers it is really needed police forensic equipment to tell for sure you cant tell by two scratches. The best way to tell is strip paint around VIN and check for signs of grinding/welding. Also a trick is to check with a mirror from backside of vin and to see will the same numbers show up or something else.

Also same people when repaint engine bay they intentionally dont paint vin numbers as for police when they are painted over they gather their suspicion. Thats why on many 190s Vin numbers are some rusty but the most important they werent tampered in any way

PS what is color behind rear seat is it grey or red?

BR
N.

[Cloudini]

the rear seat sticker tells me the car was originally Almadine Red. 512. wich is the red collour that i can find all over the car, they painted a grey colour on top of it.
they replaced the VIN number at the battery and the Vin plate on the front bar where the radiators are, next to the vin plate there is an information plate. that plate says its mercedes collour 172 grey, and that 172Grey collour i can find on the replaced vin number piece at the battery.

on the rear seat it says 201035 to. im really sure my car has been made illigal

as you already say your self. the provious owner used a 16V to build this evo replica, but the front vin number at the battery says it must be a 2.0L (wdb201024),

greetings
Wesley

[shaq]

So you think it isn´t possible that that car was orig. grey then painted red then again painted grey on top?

usually one should of look for paint on hidden places which no one repaint, inside B pillars, under rear seat etc. if it is red everywhere than its forged for sure

I believed you at the first post but wanted to calm down and be sure

Can you take a lawyer to sort things out?

Best regards,
Nikola.

[Cloudini]

Hey Shaq, im really sure my car has been forged,

Red paint is everywhere, under the floorcarpet, under and behind the rear seat, behind doorpanels, the Engine mount bar chassis, the lower side of the engine bay, the same red 512 colour as written on the sticker at the back of the rear seat couch

Im 100% positive that my car has illigal VIN numbers wich is a pity, they ruined a beautifull original 16v
These guys must have been pretty dump too !

Well atleast ive got a lot of 16v parts wohoo

Thank you shaq that i was able to discuss this with you !

To be honest, i dont think getting a lawyer will help me, i also dont want to spend lawyer money,

I owned the car since 2011, but when i started wondering what will happen if i drove into a police control with duane and car status checkers i was like, will i not get in trouble because of having a 2.5-16 in a 2.0 l car without edited car papers, so i was like, lets rebuild the engine and then reregister the car to edit the papers, since than they changed the oldtimer law here, all cars will be tax free at the age of 40 years now, instead of 25, but cars between 25 and 40 years will get reduced tax, lower than usual, i checked my car build date, and saw it was 19-01-88 and the reduced tax rule only be for cars until builddate 01-01-88, i got really pissed off than, 19 days to late, i still need to pay full tax, my car was basicly oldtimer, that was tax free, so i started looking for a chassis with builddate year 87 to build everything on another car, some seller told me, why wont u just forged ? The VIN numbers, i was like nah i dont want to get in trouble, he was like its easy, well not my thing, but my mind was like, easy ? I should check my car, thats how i discover, im glad i didnt reregister my car to change engine with this chassis, ive could have gotten in big problems for something i didnt did, they will check the vin number ! So thank god for that,

[marceldeijkers]

Is that the black evo where you send me the pictures from ?

[Cloudini]

Is that the black evo where you send me the pictures from ?

Could be, im not sure, did u run a evolution registration website ? and that ive sended u pictures true email ?

It was indeed an evo, but not in 199 black, but more grey, with some slightly purple touch, because of the redpaint under the grey colour,

[Cloudini]

can some one PM me with all the places where i can find the VIN number on an w201 .. if im going to buy an 190E ever again i want to check everything out for sure !

thanks
Wesley